Ok... Here's the deal... I have just fitted the EDIS and MJLJ units to my DCOE draw-through VW...
Have checked through everything I can think of and there is no spark getting to the plugs at all.
The MJLJ and the EDIS are getting power and there are good earths to chassis present.
The crank sensor has a reading of 1.5volts when earthed to chassis, and no reading at all when tested across 5 and 6. I have also changed the polarity of the plug wires just to be sure... We have tested at the EDIS unit also and found no voltage at 5 and 6 either.
Is there a recommended resistance across the sensor that can confirm whether it's working correctly?
Any other ideas?
No Spark, no signal at EDIS sensor....?
Moderators: JeffC, rdoherty, stieg, brentp
hi..
first: i presume that when you say you have reversed the polarity of the plug wires, you mean you have swapped the plug wires on the pairs of cylinders? assuming yes, you can rest assured that makes no difference to anything.
second: re the VR sensor. note that it does not have a voltage supplied to either end of its leads. it produces a voltage spike all of its own, due to the magnet and coil in the sensor. point is that you wont find any static voltage on pins 5 & 6 because there isnt any. you really need to test its output with an oscilloscope, as its output is difficult/impossible to detect with a multimeter. while not unheard of, it is unlikely that the sensor is faulty.
the spare VR sensor i have measures 400ohm resistance.
several things to try:
*there are (of course) two ways to connect the VR wires to the EDIS pins 5 & 6. although the wires are marked in no way, the EDIS will only trigger with them one of those two ways around. so try reversing the connections to the EDIS.
*can you say how close the VR sensor is to the teeth? it needs to be fairly close ie around <3mm or so. mine are <1mm. if it looks like much of a gap, you may need to get it closer.
*just to get it out of the way... is your trigger wheel mild steel? aluminium and non magnetic stainless steel wont work.
no doubt others will have some suggestions...
regards
alexander.
first: i presume that when you say you have reversed the polarity of the plug wires, you mean you have swapped the plug wires on the pairs of cylinders? assuming yes, you can rest assured that makes no difference to anything.
second: re the VR sensor. note that it does not have a voltage supplied to either end of its leads. it produces a voltage spike all of its own, due to the magnet and coil in the sensor. point is that you wont find any static voltage on pins 5 & 6 because there isnt any. you really need to test its output with an oscilloscope, as its output is difficult/impossible to detect with a multimeter. while not unheard of, it is unlikely that the sensor is faulty.
the spare VR sensor i have measures 400ohm resistance.
several things to try:
*there are (of course) two ways to connect the VR wires to the EDIS pins 5 & 6. although the wires are marked in no way, the EDIS will only trigger with them one of those two ways around. so try reversing the connections to the EDIS.
*can you say how close the VR sensor is to the teeth? it needs to be fairly close ie around <3mm or so. mine are <1mm. if it looks like much of a gap, you may need to get it closer.
*just to get it out of the way... is your trigger wheel mild steel? aluminium and non magnetic stainless steel wont work.
no doubt others will have some suggestions...
regards
alexander.
Hey Alexander.... I changed the wire polarity of the sensor.... That's what I meant by 'plug wires'.... And I have check the clearance of the sensor to timing wheel and it's less than 1mm... Run out is minimal and there is no contact... And lastly... The 36-1 wheel is Ford one as supplied by Boost Engineering.... It is steel I believe.
Thanks for the reply.....
Still no closer....
Thanks for the reply.....
Still no closer....
hmmm.
ok well i dont mean to discount the possibility that the VR sensor is crook. i have a spare one here with no use so if it is the same as yours i would be happy to post it to you for comparison. it is smaller than the ones i put in my cars ie the nose of the sensor is 40mm long, and about 13mm in diameter.
beyond that, you could..
*double, or most likely quadruple, check the wiring is all connected to the right terminals
*+12v on the centre pins of the coil pack
*could be the EDIS is faulty... again, unlikely, but possible.
*couple of tricky quirks: most timing lights will only trigger with the inductive clamp one particular way around on the plug lead, so note that if you are using a timing light to determine if there is spark. also, note that both leads from each coil need to be connected to make either of them spark ie if one is disconnected from the plug, and you hold the other lead near the head/block, it wont spark.
ok well i dont mean to discount the possibility that the VR sensor is crook. i have a spare one here with no use so if it is the same as yours i would be happy to post it to you for comparison. it is smaller than the ones i put in my cars ie the nose of the sensor is 40mm long, and about 13mm in diameter.
beyond that, you could..
*double, or most likely quadruple, check the wiring is all connected to the right terminals
*+12v on the centre pins of the coil pack
*could be the EDIS is faulty... again, unlikely, but possible.
*couple of tricky quirks: most timing lights will only trigger with the inductive clamp one particular way around on the plug lead, so note that if you are using a timing light to determine if there is spark. also, note that both leads from each coil need to be connected to make either of them spark ie if one is disconnected from the plug, and you hold the other lead near the head/block, it wont spark.
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NITROPIXIE
- Posts: 704
- Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2008 1:54 pm
- Location: Fareham, GB
I would start from the beginning and make it as simple as possible so there is less you could get wrong. Sounds like you have the basic setup required already.
Firstly disconnect mjlj from the loom and just concentrate on edis, coil pack and vr sensor. Take the spark plugs out of their cylinders and rest them on a good earth point like the block then you can see if the plugs are sparking and less strain on the starter motor. Turn over and see if you get sparks. Maybe fabricate a remote starter for easier access.
Like Alexander said double check and more your connections. Make sure the EDIS plug is orientated the correct way round. The plug may have a number 1 and 12 marked on it in real small numbers. Does your plug look like it has a wire missing?? this is normally pin7 just to help with orientation. Do a continuity check for the Ground pin. If no sparks then try swapping the leads to the VR sensor. Do you have a good earth strap on the engine could be another reason your not getting sparks??
You can also double check you are getting 10 degrees advance using a timing light without the plugs in the cylinders. Then you know what offset to put into the software for the mjlj.
If your getting sparks but the engine isn't running, try swapping the HT leads around with the opposing pairs cylinders. Not goin to say which ones as i don't know air cooled engines that well. What order have you connected the coil pack to the cylinders. The coil pack fires in the order of 1342, i'm sure air cooled engines are different.
Firstly disconnect mjlj from the loom and just concentrate on edis, coil pack and vr sensor. Take the spark plugs out of their cylinders and rest them on a good earth point like the block then you can see if the plugs are sparking and less strain on the starter motor. Turn over and see if you get sparks. Maybe fabricate a remote starter for easier access.
Like Alexander said double check and more your connections. Make sure the EDIS plug is orientated the correct way round. The plug may have a number 1 and 12 marked on it in real small numbers. Does your plug look like it has a wire missing?? this is normally pin7 just to help with orientation. Do a continuity check for the Ground pin. If no sparks then try swapping the leads to the VR sensor. Do you have a good earth strap on the engine could be another reason your not getting sparks??
You can also double check you are getting 10 degrees advance using a timing light without the plugs in the cylinders. Then you know what offset to put into the software for the mjlj.
If your getting sparks but the engine isn't running, try swapping the HT leads around with the opposing pairs cylinders. Not goin to say which ones as i don't know air cooled engines that well. What order have you connected the coil pack to the cylinders. The coil pack fires in the order of 1342, i'm sure air cooled engines are different.
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Cheers for the replies guys.... Really appreciate it....
To clear some things up....
This is the project....
I have retraced all wires and the all look to be aok... There is no spark what so ever... I have tried to run the engine on the EDIS only (MJLJ disconnected), as suggested in the MJLJ paperwork... And she no go.... There is no earth from the engine to the chassis on aircooled Dubs, only the one from the nose of the transaxle... I will check that.... As I honestly can't remember if I hooked that up during the rebuild.... You could be onto something there NitroPixie!!!!
DannyP.... Can I ask what is your firing order?.... Maybe I have that wrong?
Speaking of plug leads.... The leads I have are carbon centre HT leads as used on most conventional cars (mine are from an Aussie Falcon), to which I have fitted the EDIS coil pack ends.... The plug end is the conventional fitting.... Would it be possible to fit the standard 'screw in' VW fitting in it place?... The reason I ask is because the connection between the plug and lead does not feel very positive if you know what I mean...
And thanks for the offer Alexander.... I will keep it in mind.
Simon
To clear some things up....
This is the project....
I have retraced all wires and the all look to be aok... There is no spark what so ever... I have tried to run the engine on the EDIS only (MJLJ disconnected), as suggested in the MJLJ paperwork... And she no go.... There is no earth from the engine to the chassis on aircooled Dubs, only the one from the nose of the transaxle... I will check that.... As I honestly can't remember if I hooked that up during the rebuild.... You could be onto something there NitroPixie!!!!
DannyP.... Can I ask what is your firing order?.... Maybe I have that wrong?
Speaking of plug leads.... The leads I have are carbon centre HT leads as used on most conventional cars (mine are from an Aussie Falcon), to which I have fitted the EDIS coil pack ends.... The plug end is the conventional fitting.... Would it be possible to fit the standard 'screw in' VW fitting in it place?... The reason I ask is because the connection between the plug and lead does not feel very positive if you know what I mean...
And thanks for the offer Alexander.... I will keep it in mind.
Simon
Last edited by Humpty on Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
the leads are a bit of a pain in australia, where EDIS was hardly ever used.
i gather you have successfully fitted the EDIS coil pack plugs to one end of the leads, so you should be able to change the other end too, or have i missed your meaning? for one of my cars (v8 jeep) i started with the leads from an EDIS equipped falcon XR8, cut the leads to length and crimped new spark plug connectors on. that worked well.
if it is too tricky, there are two potential solutions. first, have new leads made. i had a set made at autoOne. it was expensive ie about $100 for four, but they are all the right length with the right plugs. secondly, buy a second hand twin coil pack from another car. i, for instance, bought one from a subaru. i have not used it, but it should work: after all, all wasted spark systems are doing the same thing, so likely the coil characteristics are similar.
alexander.
i gather you have successfully fitted the EDIS coil pack plugs to one end of the leads, so you should be able to change the other end too, or have i missed your meaning? for one of my cars (v8 jeep) i started with the leads from an EDIS equipped falcon XR8, cut the leads to length and crimped new spark plug connectors on. that worked well.
if it is too tricky, there are two potential solutions. first, have new leads made. i had a set made at autoOne. it was expensive ie about $100 for four, but they are all the right length with the right plugs. secondly, buy a second hand twin coil pack from another car. i, for instance, bought one from a subaru. i have not used it, but it should work: after all, all wasted spark systems are doing the same thing, so likely the coil characteristics are similar.
alexander.
Yeah the coil pack ends went together well I guess.... The core of the lead was folded back on the lead and the metal fitting crimped into place... Just as they were on the OEM EDIS leads.... Gonna see if I can get a continuity or impedence test done on the leads... Maybe there is a fault there.... What model XR8 had EDIS Alexander?
Earlier it was suggested to check the chassis/engine ground.... I actually don't have one now, as I thought it would be fine without it... Engine and transaxle are solid mounted in this car now... But I have been thinking that my aluminium mounts are not conducting very well, so will fit the OEM braided earth strap tonight....
The orientation of the plug is correct from memory... There is a small #1 on one end of the plug... But I will check it again this evening....
As soon as the temp drops.... It's a little warm outside right now!
Will keep you posted.
Earlier it was suggested to check the chassis/engine ground.... I actually don't have one now, as I thought it would be fine without it... Engine and transaxle are solid mounted in this car now... But I have been thinking that my aluminium mounts are not conducting very well, so will fit the OEM braided earth strap tonight....
The orientation of the plug is correct from memory... There is a small #1 on one end of the plug... But I will check it again this evening....
As soon as the temp drops.... It's a little warm outside right now!
Will keep you posted.
ITS ALIVE!
Went through it all again and it turns out the problem was something I hadn't even touched!
The wires to the coil were arse about.... The colours are correct (ie the same code/colour) at both ends, but they are incorrectly fitted... I had fitted an auto plug at the firewall (salvaged from my STi powered Notchback loom), so I just changed them there.... Plugged it back in and turn the key.... Started straight up first time!!!!
Awesome!
Now to fix the exhaust leaks and start on the MJLJ interface learning curve!!!!
Cheers for the help guys... Awesome feedback and support.
Simon
Went through it all again and it turns out the problem was something I hadn't even touched!
The wires to the coil were arse about.... The colours are correct (ie the same code/colour) at both ends, but they are incorrectly fitted... I had fitted an auto plug at the firewall (salvaged from my STi powered Notchback loom), so I just changed them there.... Plugged it back in and turn the key.... Started straight up first time!!!!
Awesome!
Now to fix the exhaust leaks and start on the MJLJ interface learning curve!!!!
Cheers for the help guys... Awesome feedback and support.
Simon
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NITROPIXIE
- Posts: 704
- Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2008 1:54 pm
- Location: Fareham, GB
