Hello first of all!
I installed the megajolt/EDIS system to an Alfa Romeo 105 Nord engine on a test stand and it worked out perfectly, usingthe following parts:
original Ford fiesta Ignition cables and VR sensor(angled version), trigger wheels 36 tooths, original Ford coil.
Then I installed a duplicated system with the same wiring in my car and I don´t have a spark.
The current status is as following:
I use the same:
triggerwheel
VR sensor
EDIs module
difference:
I use different ignition cables with 1kOhm resistance plugs and a Beru/Bosch double coilwith 3 pins for distributorless ignition system (ZS234). The coil has the recommended resistance values.
What happens:
- I have ground and 12Volts on all relevant system points. all grounds and 12 V are on same point.
- the VR signal is only about 1 volt
- i don´t get a spark with changed polarity of VR sensor
- one side of the coil heats up a bit, the other stays cold when ignition is on or after cranking
- measuring the resistance of the coil on the 3 pins. I get the same values on each side
- I tried 3 different EDIS modules including the one than was running before
- Megajolt is connecting to the PC and TPS calibration works
- Megajolt does niot read any cranking revs on runtime reading
I´m not sure the pins of the Beru coil are the same order than the Ford part.
I pinned + to the middle, but unsure if EDIS 10 and 12 go to 1 or 3 at the coil.
My question:
- Is the VR signal of 1 volt to weak to let the EDIS know that the engine is cranking?
- Is the connection to the coil/EDIS10/12 relevant? I thought it does not matter if you connect 1to 12 or 1 to 10
Please help me, because I have to fix that until friday for our annual trackday....
Thanks, Werner
No spark, even with VR polarity changed-please help......
Moderators: JeffC, rdoherty, stieg, brentp
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alfadoctor22
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:23 am
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Spockie-Tech
- Posts: 152
- Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 12:52 pm
- Location: Melbourne, Australia
Measuring the VR sensor voltage level is only an approximation, since its actually a variable shape and frequency wave, so the exact voltage will depend on how your multimeter (assuming its a digital meter) averages it out.
Make sure you are reading on the AC (rather than DC) setting. but all you are really looking for is that you get Zero volts with the engine stopped, and some reasonable voltage while cranking showing there is a signal there. 1 Volt does sound a bit low, but not worrying so. have you checked your sensor-to-wheel gap and alignment ?
Take the Megajolt out of the circuit until you get the car running. It should start and idle fine on just the EDIS in limp-home (10 degree timing) mode. This makes troubleshooting simpler. You can add the MJ back in when you get it running.
Given that you have changed the coil to a different sort, and tried multiple EDIS modules, the coil not being compatible sounds like the most likely culprit.
Some coils have built in "ignitors" (driver circuits), which are not suitable for use with EDIS, or could have other requirements not matching the EDIS driver module. If you can, try the original ford coilpack to see if it starts on that. Or find an auto electrician who is familair with the coilpack you are using and ask them if it is a "dumb" (no inbuilt drivers) coil and what the pinouts are.
The EDIS is a "pull to ground" style driver.. like a set of points. One pin of the coilpack should have 12v on it which is common to both coils, and the other two pins are switched to ground by the EDIS to charge and discharge the coils. So if you have the common positive lead switched around with one of the "low side" pins, it wont work.. your comment about "one side" of the coilpack getting warm makes this sound fairly likely
You can probably tell by measuring the resistance between all three pins. One pin should have about the same resistance to each of the other two, and the resistance between the two "ground sides" should be double that of the common-to-one side. That sounds really hard to follow, so I'll thro wn ASCCI diagram in here and see if that helps.
Pin...........Pin..............Pin
1---/\/\/\/----2-----\/\/\/\/----3
|.....Coil.....|.......Coil.....|
In that example, Pin 2 is the common positive connection and pins 1 and 3 are the low-side EDIS switches.
Measuring the resistance between pins 1 and 2, or pins 2 and 3 should get you about the same resistance value (the coil primary).
If you are measuring between 1 and 3, you will get double the resistance since you are measuring two coils in series.
That might help you work out how your packs pins are arranged.
But I'd still try the Ford Pack if its conveniently on-hand..
its only 3 wires to change and that will pinpoint the problem for you.
Make sure you are reading on the AC (rather than DC) setting. but all you are really looking for is that you get Zero volts with the engine stopped, and some reasonable voltage while cranking showing there is a signal there. 1 Volt does sound a bit low, but not worrying so. have you checked your sensor-to-wheel gap and alignment ?
Take the Megajolt out of the circuit until you get the car running. It should start and idle fine on just the EDIS in limp-home (10 degree timing) mode. This makes troubleshooting simpler. You can add the MJ back in when you get it running.
Given that you have changed the coil to a different sort, and tried multiple EDIS modules, the coil not being compatible sounds like the most likely culprit.
Some coils have built in "ignitors" (driver circuits), which are not suitable for use with EDIS, or could have other requirements not matching the EDIS driver module. If you can, try the original ford coilpack to see if it starts on that. Or find an auto electrician who is familair with the coilpack you are using and ask them if it is a "dumb" (no inbuilt drivers) coil and what the pinouts are.
The EDIS is a "pull to ground" style driver.. like a set of points. One pin of the coilpack should have 12v on it which is common to both coils, and the other two pins are switched to ground by the EDIS to charge and discharge the coils. So if you have the common positive lead switched around with one of the "low side" pins, it wont work.. your comment about "one side" of the coilpack getting warm makes this sound fairly likely
You can probably tell by measuring the resistance between all three pins. One pin should have about the same resistance to each of the other two, and the resistance between the two "ground sides" should be double that of the common-to-one side. That sounds really hard to follow, so I'll thro wn ASCCI diagram in here and see if that helps.
Pin...........Pin..............Pin
1---/\/\/\/----2-----\/\/\/\/----3
|.....Coil.....|.......Coil.....|
In that example, Pin 2 is the common positive connection and pins 1 and 3 are the low-side EDIS switches.
Measuring the resistance between pins 1 and 2, or pins 2 and 3 should get you about the same resistance value (the coil primary).
If you are measuring between 1 and 3, you will get double the resistance since you are measuring two coils in series.
That might help you work out how your packs pins are arranged.
But I'd still try the Ford Pack if its conveniently on-hand..
its only 3 wires to change and that will pinpoint the problem for you.
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alfadoctor22
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:23 am
Hi Spockie tech,
thanks a lot for your quick reply.
As you mentioned is measured the coil already yesterday.
Middle pin 2 to left and middle pin to right 3 have the same restistance and pin 1 to pin 3 have the double resistance. This for the middle pin N° 2 must be the 12V +.
I changed pin 1 and 3 on the coil-no spark.
I replaced the VR sensor-no spark.
I grounded all directly to the battery-no spark
I will try the original coil as you suggested now.
Another idea:
Some posted that a voltage drop to 10 v or so results in a failure of the system.
I measured that out with a digital voltmeter.
I read 10.9 Volts when cranking with a new fresh charged battery.
Is that a possible reason, too?
thanks a lot for your quick reply.
As you mentioned is measured the coil already yesterday.
Middle pin 2 to left and middle pin to right 3 have the same restistance and pin 1 to pin 3 have the double resistance. This for the middle pin N° 2 must be the 12V +.
I changed pin 1 and 3 on the coil-no spark.
I replaced the VR sensor-no spark.
I grounded all directly to the battery-no spark
I will try the original coil as you suggested now.
Another idea:
Some posted that a voltage drop to 10 v or so results in a failure of the system.
I measured that out with a digital voltmeter.
I read 10.9 Volts when cranking with a new fresh charged battery.
Is that a possible reason, too?
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alfadoctor22
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:23 am
Hi Spockie-Tech,
I got that engine running now....
Guess what....
I opened the EDIS plug and found out, that the order of the pins was ok as it looked from the outside, but I had pushed in the ground and 12V pins with 1 pin offset.
My ground and 12V readings were ok then, sVR signal as mentioned was about 1,2Volts but no spark.
even after correcting the Plug-pin order it didn´t spark.
I changed the coil as you suggested, too.
Then I switched to another EDIS module, that I had in stock.....It fired!
After having the engine run I connected my megajolt and the green LED flashed.
So far so good I thought ...but nope.
The pin misalignment had killed my EDIS and my megajolt.
So I switched to my spare MJ4 and finally all runs fine.
I´m happy to have it fixed, but killing the EDIS and one of my Mj´s hurts bad......
As soon as I have the car ready for the track, I will post some pics for you all.
Thanks for reading and helping.
BTW. you can use the coil that I have for sure.
It´s a BERU ZS 234, identic with the Bosch item, so no need to use the original Ford with that ugly HT wires!!!
Best regards,
Werner
I got that engine running now....
Guess what....
I opened the EDIS plug and found out, that the order of the pins was ok as it looked from the outside, but I had pushed in the ground and 12V pins with 1 pin offset.
My ground and 12V readings were ok then, sVR signal as mentioned was about 1,2Volts but no spark.
even after correcting the Plug-pin order it didn´t spark.
I changed the coil as you suggested, too.
Then I switched to another EDIS module, that I had in stock.....It fired!
After having the engine run I connected my megajolt and the green LED flashed.
So far so good I thought ...but nope.
The pin misalignment had killed my EDIS and my megajolt.
So I switched to my spare MJ4 and finally all runs fine.
I´m happy to have it fixed, but killing the EDIS and one of my Mj´s hurts bad......
As soon as I have the car ready for the track, I will post some pics for you all.
Thanks for reading and helping.
BTW. you can use the coil that I have for sure.
It´s a BERU ZS 234, identic with the Bosch item, so no need to use the original Ford with that ugly HT wires!!!
Best regards,
Werner
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Spockie-Tech
- Posts: 152
- Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 12:52 pm
- Location: Melbourne, Australia
Glad to hear you got it running 
Killing an EDIS is pretty hard, but it can be done if you try feeding it reversed voltages I imagine..
Killing the MJ is a pain, but with the open circuit diagram and parts available from most places, or brent, fixing it shouldnt be too hard if you cna read a cct diagram, or find a local techie who can.
Good luck on your roundy-round racing
Killing an EDIS is pretty hard, but it can be done if you try feeding it reversed voltages I imagine..
Killing the MJ is a pain, but with the open circuit diagram and parts available from most places, or brent, fixing it shouldnt be too hard if you cna read a cct diagram, or find a local techie who can.
Good luck on your roundy-round racing