As I'm currently having problems with fueling I was suggested on another forum to use a wideband lambda sensor to messure the A/F ratio. Now my car doesn't even have a narrowband so everthing needs to be custom. A wideband lambda sensor is fairly cheap (bosch 17014) but the controller is pretty expensive for just to get some data.
The cheapest I found at the moment is the 14point7 slc oem a pcb that still needs a datalogger or gauge to display the value's.
So I thougth maybe it can be an update for the mj to control the wideband or even in combination with the autochoke option that was issues before to somehow control fuel.
wideband lambda controller
Moderators: JeffC, rdoherty, stieg, brentp
I personally can't see the point in yet another wideband controller. The market is pretty well catered for, with good solutions at the high end, the low end and everything in between. Far better to get Brent to finish off some of the existing projects before thinking about new ones. RaceCapture is now running 2 years late, Megajolt2/D/COP was originally due by end of 2009 so 18 months behind.
Official Megajolt distributor for UK and Europe.
Complete Megajolt packages, EDIS kits, Trigger wheels and everything else you need for your megajolt install
www.trigger-wheels.com
Complete Megajolt packages, EDIS kits, Trigger wheels and everything else you need for your megajolt install
www.trigger-wheels.com
@fulmnte I think 200 dollar for a controller is pretty much especially for my setup. It is just a simple carbed car that had a dizzy with points. For creating a map and finetuning a wideband can be usefull but after that maybe once a year or when the car is sounding a little odd.
A wideband sensor can be bought for +/- 35 euro's so spending another 100 euro just for a controller is expensive to me. I agree when creating a performance engine worth some serious cash it is wise to monitor the afr all the time and then paying for a good setup.
@cng1
Are you a stackholder or something that you can decide what needs finishing first before new projects are started? It was just an idea that doesn't mean it needs to be realised right on the spot or even realised at all.
A wideband sensor can be bought for +/- 35 euro's so spending another 100 euro just for a controller is expensive to me. I agree when creating a performance engine worth some serious cash it is wise to monitor the afr all the time and then paying for a good setup.
@cng1
Are you a stackholder or something that you can decide what needs finishing first before new projects are started? It was just an idea that doesn't mean it needs to be realised right on the spot or even realised at all.
@DD
AFAIK cng1 is not a stakeholder, but might be interested in development of the product as trigger-wheels sell them (and I am a very satisfied customer)
@fulmnte
For a full tweak with dozens of sensors and a software allowing every possible parameter controlling every possible gadget, Megajolt might just not be intended first place. It is a simple and very effective way to get rid of a dizzy, points, condenser a.s.o. and in most cases, you get more power, more reliable ignition and less fuel consumption with it (for free!).
But I understand your point and I was quite curious what it does to the combustion, too. That's why I added a wideband lambda to my exhaust and a controller to read what happens to the gases. I opted for an Innovate product called MTX-L and I now have a nice gauge in my car displaying AF ratio. I must say that without the appropriate knowledge, you cannot do anything with those figures other than verify if your car runs rich or lean. With some dedication you should be able to connect the output controller to Megajolt and alter advance, but on carbs it might not be of imense use. Proper jetting and balancing already gives a fair result.
I'm tempted to convert to injection (Jenvey throttle bodies + Emerald ECU), although my car currently runs a charm since I added Megajolt. It's more like a "I want to know if I'm capable of doing this"-thing. I then will connect the Innovate controller to tear the most out of the system, but for the moment it's just a nice gimmick with some funny lights dancing according to the throttle position.
Cheers.
Jos
AFAIK cng1 is not a stakeholder, but might be interested in development of the product as trigger-wheels sell them (and I am a very satisfied customer)
@fulmnte
For a full tweak with dozens of sensors and a software allowing every possible parameter controlling every possible gadget, Megajolt might just not be intended first place. It is a simple and very effective way to get rid of a dizzy, points, condenser a.s.o. and in most cases, you get more power, more reliable ignition and less fuel consumption with it (for free!).
But I understand your point and I was quite curious what it does to the combustion, too. That's why I added a wideband lambda to my exhaust and a controller to read what happens to the gases. I opted for an Innovate product called MTX-L and I now have a nice gauge in my car displaying AF ratio. I must say that without the appropriate knowledge, you cannot do anything with those figures other than verify if your car runs rich or lean. With some dedication you should be able to connect the output controller to Megajolt and alter advance, but on carbs it might not be of imense use. Proper jetting and balancing already gives a fair result.
I'm tempted to convert to injection (Jenvey throttle bodies + Emerald ECU), although my car currently runs a charm since I added Megajolt. It's more like a "I want to know if I'm capable of doing this"-thing. I then will connect the Innovate controller to tear the most out of the system, but for the moment it's just a nice gimmick with some funny lights dancing according to the throttle position.
Cheers.
Jos
If all else fails, consult the manual.
My blog: http://jacob-jos.blogspot.com/
My blog: http://jacob-jos.blogspot.com/
Please let me know where you are able to buy LSU 4.2 sensors at 35 euros. At that price I will take 50 of them!A wideband sensor can be bought for +/- 35 euro's so spending another 100 euro just for a controller is expensive to me. I agree when creating a performance engine worth some serious cash it is wise to monitor the afr all the time and then paying for a good setup.
I'm not exactly a stockholder, more an interested party. Brent is entitled to ignore everything I say but I would like to think that he and I are pretty closely aligned in our thinking. All suggestions for new products are very welcome indeed but clearly with limited resource some prioritisation is required. The two big products under development right now both have no real equivalents in the market and are a long way behind schedule so the sooner they can fill those gaps in the market the better for everyone. Wideband systems though there are lots of cheap alternatives - the cheapest option of which is probably the SLC-OEM from 14point7.com at just $65 and a lot less if you're buying in bulk so it doesn't seem worthwhile to invest a lot of time, money and effort to produce the same thing at more or less the same price.cng1 - Are you a stackholder or something that you can decide what needs finishing first before new projects are started? It was just an idea that doesn't mean it needs to be realised right on the spot or even realised at all.
Official Megajolt distributor for UK and Europe.
Complete Megajolt packages, EDIS kits, Trigger wheels and everything else you need for your megajolt install
www.trigger-wheels.com
Complete Megajolt packages, EDIS kits, Trigger wheels and everything else you need for your megajolt install
www.trigger-wheels.com
amazon.com charges 49 dollars for a bosch 17014
http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-17014-Oxyge ... B000BZI4ZW
14point7 charges 70 dollars
and my local breaker offered me an oem VW for 30 euro's (used).
As I believe google the bosch LSU4.2 has many names
- Bosch 17014
- Bosch LSU4.2
- Bosch 0 258 007 057
- VAG 012 906 262 B
The gadget geek in me tells me to stop whining and buy a 14point7 oem kit, wire it in and do the mod on the megajolt v3 to put it on the aux input. But the other half tells me to keep the money in my pocket and save to buy some proper suspension parts.
@luxseven
I'm no car mechanic so everything I know comes from bookes and the internet. Therefore the wideband would give me some tips where to look for faults. For example The last week I spend numerous hours of trying to find the reason why I had backfires. I tried several different maps with much and little advance etc etc but still no luck. Last logic thing to me was running way to rich un burned fuel. So spend a lot of time finding a store selling jets that fit my carb and putting smaller jets in it. Loaded the map which gave the best result with the large jet to find out the backfires got worse. Finaly found out that backfires often comes from lean running.... So back to the store get some big jets put them in and no more backfires. But when I have the right jet and proper emmision setup the wideband has no more value for me.
http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-17014-Oxyge ... B000BZI4ZW
14point7 charges 70 dollars
and my local breaker offered me an oem VW for 30 euro's (used).
As I believe google the bosch LSU4.2 has many names
- Bosch 17014
- Bosch LSU4.2
- Bosch 0 258 007 057
- VAG 012 906 262 B
The gadget geek in me tells me to stop whining and buy a 14point7 oem kit, wire it in and do the mod on the megajolt v3 to put it on the aux input. But the other half tells me to keep the money in my pocket and save to buy some proper suspension parts.
@luxseven
I'm no car mechanic so everything I know comes from bookes and the internet. Therefore the wideband would give me some tips where to look for faults. For example The last week I spend numerous hours of trying to find the reason why I had backfires. I tried several different maps with much and little advance etc etc but still no luck. Last logic thing to me was running way to rich un burned fuel. So spend a lot of time finding a store selling jets that fit my carb and putting smaller jets in it. Loaded the map which gave the best result with the large jet to find out the backfires got worse. Finaly found out that backfires often comes from lean running.... So back to the store get some big jets put them in and no more backfires. But when I have the right jet and proper emmision setup the wideband has no more value for me.
$49 plus shipping+tax works out a lot more than 35 Euros. I've bought a couple of batches of sensors at that price and by the time they're in Europe they cost 60 Euro or thereabouts.
30 euro for used sensors sounds a really bad deal to me as you have no idea if they've been contaminated or abused. My personal opinion is that used lambda sensors are to be avoided at all costs unless you personally can account for their entire prior life.
30 euro for used sensors sounds a really bad deal to me as you have no idea if they've been contaminated or abused. My personal opinion is that used lambda sensors are to be avoided at all costs unless you personally can account for their entire prior life.
Official Megajolt distributor for UK and Europe.
Complete Megajolt packages, EDIS kits, Trigger wheels and everything else you need for your megajolt install
www.trigger-wheels.com
Complete Megajolt packages, EDIS kits, Trigger wheels and everything else you need for your megajolt install
www.trigger-wheels.com
maybe there is an difference in you being a supplier and I'm an end user. As for the amazon shipping it is 7 dollars to ship to europe. so 57 dollars = 42,75 euro's. Then if I'm unlucky I need to pay tax (never happened with all my international items) but between 22 and 150 euro's I only need to pay the 19% vat and nothing more. so worst case it costs me 50 euro's new. Offcourse when buying bulk you need to pay more shipping and taxes. But I assume you as supplier can get them from stores only resellers can buy them or with larger discounts.
As for the used item, we have loads of recycling jards here that are buying new (to 4 years old) cars that have been in an accident and are beyond economical repair. They dismantle it, test the parts, label them and put them away. You can buy the stuff with warranty, If i can live with an edis module from an old banger I can live with an used wideband sensor with warrenty.
As for the used item, we have loads of recycling jards here that are buying new (to 4 years old) cars that have been in an accident and are beyond economical repair. They dismantle it, test the parts, label them and put them away. You can buy the stuff with warranty, If i can live with an edis module from an old banger I can live with an used wideband sensor with warrenty.
Don't forget the "collection fee" when you get hit with import tax. At 10-20 euros that can often cost more than either than the tax does!Then if I'm unlucky I need to pay tax (never happened with all my international items) but between 22 and 150 euro's I only need to pay the 19% vat and nothing more.
That is two very different circumstances. An EDIS module either works or it doesn't and very fail extraordinarily rarely - we see less than one in a thousand failures on them. With a wideband sensor it only takes a whiff of a coolant leak or an owner who filled up with a bad batch of fuel two years prior to make a sensor misread/die. If your used sensor dies then if you have a warranty you can swap it easily but if it is misreading you have often have no way of knowing that the readings you are using to tune the car are garbage!If i can live with an edis module from an old banger I can live with an used wideband sensor with warrenty.
So while we're happy to have given our warranty on many thousands of used EDIS modules that we have supplied to customers over the years we have never supplied and would never consider supplying a customer with a used lambda sensor. Even if customers were happy to purchase a used wideband sensor without any sort of warranty we would have to politely decline to supply them with one as we just believe the potential risks are too large and too likely for it to be a good idea.
Official Megajolt distributor for UK and Europe.
Complete Megajolt packages, EDIS kits, Trigger wheels and everything else you need for your megajolt install
www.trigger-wheels.com
Complete Megajolt packages, EDIS kits, Trigger wheels and everything else you need for your megajolt install
www.trigger-wheels.com
@cng
"interested party" *lol* ... nice euphemism !
@DD
If the whole approach is trial and error, then the effort both physical and financial should be calculated and rechecked. If you don't count the hours spent, your bill may be right. A well proven EDIS module compared to a consumable like the lambda sensor is the better part to rely on when working with used components. There are cheap alternatives to OEM items on the market, but I'd never put one in my car even if my AFR-meter were for show (which it is if I'm honest).
Your example speaks for itself (spent numerous hours), but at least you have learned the dependability of jetting and lean/rich combustion
At around 200.-$ which in the end makes also 200.-€ when crossed the ocean, the Innovate MTX-L comes with a high quality lambda sensor, full cabling and welding boss. The controller has several outputs and you can connect them to several ECU's (with corresponding inputs).
And NO, I'm not a stockholder of Innovate
Cheers.
Jos
"interested party" *lol* ... nice euphemism !
@DD
If the whole approach is trial and error, then the effort both physical and financial should be calculated and rechecked. If you don't count the hours spent, your bill may be right. A well proven EDIS module compared to a consumable like the lambda sensor is the better part to rely on when working with used components. There are cheap alternatives to OEM items on the market, but I'd never put one in my car even if my AFR-meter were for show (which it is if I'm honest).
Your example speaks for itself (spent numerous hours), but at least you have learned the dependability of jetting and lean/rich combustion
At around 200.-$ which in the end makes also 200.-€ when crossed the ocean, the Innovate MTX-L comes with a high quality lambda sensor, full cabling and welding boss. The controller has several outputs and you can connect them to several ECU's (with corresponding inputs).
And NO, I'm not a stockholder of Innovate
Cheers.
Jos
If all else fails, consult the manual.
My blog: http://jacob-jos.blogspot.com/
My blog: http://jacob-jos.blogspot.com/
-
Escortitis
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 5:01 am
@DD
Posted this over in the maps thread for you as well, but my 'cheap'
O2 solution was:
http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=KC5486
After what I read above, maybe not so cheap. Did I mention you have to make it yourself.........
My $0.02
Cheers
Posted this over in the maps thread for you as well, but my 'cheap'
O2 solution was:http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=KC5486
After what I read above, maybe not so cheap. Did I mention you have to make it yourself.........
My $0.02
Cheers
Bringing this back up:
I just purchased the SLC EVK from Alan over at 14point7 and I could not be more pleased. It was very simple to assemble. It is up and running on the bench with no issues.
My intent it to use it with a complete stand alone system I did not want a gadge on the dash if I want to monitor things or I feel that there is a problem I need to look at I will hook up the laptop and data log.
In the interim (before I convert over to a complete stand alone system in the race car I figured I would use the WB in my 924s with the MJLJr. I was going to use the EVK narrow band output to run the current stock DME in my car and then use the 0-5volt WB output from the EVK and connect it to the MJ unit. This way I can can then data-log the WB through the MJ with my PC.
I was thinking I would use the input from the WB to tweak the timing maps based on what the WB is seeing. For Instance if it goes lean I would like it to cut timing when it is under high load (or even boost) this would trigger the MJ to cut more timing. The only problem I see is that I would also like to be able to tie this in to the load that the engine is seeing. IE under light load but high rpm I would like ti not to cut the timing but under load I would as it would act as a safty preventing me from hammering the motor in a lean condition. Kind of a built in motor protection system.
I will be honest I need to go brush up on my MJLJr as it has worked flawless for the last 3 years so I am a bit rusty as to what it con do with respect to inputs and there relationship to engine load.
If I like this enough I may keep it in the 924 and get another EVK form alan togo in the original project
I just purchased the SLC EVK from Alan over at 14point7 and I could not be more pleased. It was very simple to assemble. It is up and running on the bench with no issues.
My intent it to use it with a complete stand alone system I did not want a gadge on the dash if I want to monitor things or I feel that there is a problem I need to look at I will hook up the laptop and data log.
In the interim (before I convert over to a complete stand alone system in the race car I figured I would use the WB in my 924s with the MJLJr. I was going to use the EVK narrow band output to run the current stock DME in my car and then use the 0-5volt WB output from the EVK and connect it to the MJ unit. This way I can can then data-log the WB through the MJ with my PC.
I was thinking I would use the input from the WB to tweak the timing maps based on what the WB is seeing. For Instance if it goes lean I would like it to cut timing when it is under high load (or even boost) this would trigger the MJ to cut more timing. The only problem I see is that I would also like to be able to tie this in to the load that the engine is seeing. IE under light load but high rpm I would like ti not to cut the timing but under load I would as it would act as a safty preventing me from hammering the motor in a lean condition. Kind of a built in motor protection system.
I will be honest I need to go brush up on my MJLJr as it has worked flawless for the last 3 years so I am a bit rusty as to what it con do with respect to inputs and there relationship to engine load.
If I like this enough I may keep it in the 924 and get another EVK form alan togo in the original project
Respectfully
Dean
Dean