Its been since Aug 2014 that I have been hearing that Analysis would be "soon". Maybe I don't understand the definition of, "soon" when used in this context.
The bothersome thing is I see another race capture on kickstarter just like the first one and the one I use most often is still incomplete. I know from others personal anecdotes that my opinion is not alone. Am I unrealistic to expect this will ever be completed?
I think this is the best value data capturing and telemetry system out there and I would love to cheerlead for it, I obviously beleived enough to buy one, but its hard to keep that torch lit when I can't even use the thing to do what it was promised to do.
I am finally going to go on the record and say as a user, its bad practice to add features and product to a lineup when not everything on the existing product functions yet, how can there be time for new features when the core ones are incomplete?
Philip
What is the status of RCP Analysis?
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pmacduffie
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2014 5:55 pm
- Location: Florida
Hi Phillip,
Thanks for note and feedback. It looks like we've done a poor job communicating the analysis capabilities we already have, and where we're going in the future. Here's some information that fills the gaps:
We have a couple of powerful analysis options available right now for RaceCapture/Pro users.
1) Live telemetry analysis.
You can stream telemetry data from RaceCapture/Pro's built in telemetry module (if optioned) or via an internet connected android device via bluetooth. We have that documented here: https://autosportlabs.net/RaceCapturePr ... Quickstart
What's powerful about this option is you can do live analysis while the car is on track, and the data is available later for off line review. We have powerful features including lap-lap comparison, as well as time-gap analysis when selecting multiple laps.
Example of some recent data:
https://www.race-capture.com/events/25- ... &laps[]=56
2) Off-line / after-the-fact analysis.
If you've collected data via an SD card, you can use the same analysis tools above, just with data loaded after-the-fact.
We have instructions here on how to upload logfile data for analysis: https://autosportlabs.net/RaceCapturePro_Analysis
What's powerful about 1 and 2 above is that you get a consistent analysis experience regardless of whether you stream data live, or load it after the fact.
3) In-app analysis. On top of the existing real-time and after the fact analysis capabilities above, we have been working on in app analysis and we're preparing for a beta release. This work got prioritized after we replaced the old RaceCapture app with the latest, so we have the same app everywhere. Noteworthy blog post: https://www.autosportlabs.com/racecaptu ... roduction/
In app analysis is progressing well and we've posted a number of sample videos on our youtube channel. Some examples:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JM_uRfAz0B0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyBTv0vBNus
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjjiUkFehbo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EANulROWpqk
(more on our channel)
We'll also be releasing an interactive tour of the features, shortly.
The new RaceCapture announced is an extension of the RaceCapture/Pro family, and they will all use the same app, analysis tools, dashboard, online service and more.
Thanks again, and I hope that helps understand what we've created and where we're going!
Thanks for note and feedback. It looks like we've done a poor job communicating the analysis capabilities we already have, and where we're going in the future. Here's some information that fills the gaps:
We have a couple of powerful analysis options available right now for RaceCapture/Pro users.
1) Live telemetry analysis.
You can stream telemetry data from RaceCapture/Pro's built in telemetry module (if optioned) or via an internet connected android device via bluetooth. We have that documented here: https://autosportlabs.net/RaceCapturePr ... Quickstart
What's powerful about this option is you can do live analysis while the car is on track, and the data is available later for off line review. We have powerful features including lap-lap comparison, as well as time-gap analysis when selecting multiple laps.
Example of some recent data:
https://www.race-capture.com/events/25- ... &laps[]=56
2) Off-line / after-the-fact analysis.
If you've collected data via an SD card, you can use the same analysis tools above, just with data loaded after-the-fact.
We have instructions here on how to upload logfile data for analysis: https://autosportlabs.net/RaceCapturePro_Analysis
What's powerful about 1 and 2 above is that you get a consistent analysis experience regardless of whether you stream data live, or load it after the fact.
3) In-app analysis. On top of the existing real-time and after the fact analysis capabilities above, we have been working on in app analysis and we're preparing for a beta release. This work got prioritized after we replaced the old RaceCapture app with the latest, so we have the same app everywhere. Noteworthy blog post: https://www.autosportlabs.com/racecaptu ... roduction/
In app analysis is progressing well and we've posted a number of sample videos on our youtube channel. Some examples:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JM_uRfAz0B0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyBTv0vBNus
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjjiUkFehbo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EANulROWpqk
(more on our channel)
We'll also be releasing an interactive tour of the features, shortly.
The new RaceCapture announced is an extension of the RaceCapture/Pro family, and they will all use the same app, analysis tools, dashboard, online service and more.
Thanks again, and I hope that helps understand what we've created and where we're going!
I'm with Philip on this. As a user it feels like you guys are running in a bunch of different directions right now and nothing gets completed. I work at a startup that creates hardware and software for said hardware, so I know your pain, but I also know without delivering on our promises we won't have customers in the future.
I don't want live telemetry and I'm aware of the ability to upload a log file. There are two problems with that solution.
1. I've tried uploading files and it doesn't seem to work. I can never get anything to show up. Granted it has been a while, but it was frustrating enough that I tried a few times and gave up.
2. The old app had built in analysis.
That being said I backed the new kickstarter thing but I really hope you get finish what you already offer before moving on. Basically the same feelings I had when v2 of RCP was announced and v1 felt like a beta product.
I don't want live telemetry and I'm aware of the ability to upload a log file. There are two problems with that solution.
1. I've tried uploading files and it doesn't seem to work. I can never get anything to show up. Granted it has been a while, but it was frustrating enough that I tried a few times and gave up.
2. The old app had built in analysis.
That being said I backed the new kickstarter thing but I really hope you get finish what you already offer before moving on. Basically the same feelings I had when v2 of RCP was announced and v1 felt like a beta product.
Hi Nick,
Thanks, and your feedback is heard - and thank you too for backing the Kickstarter! It really makes a difference.
The following should help clarity to how we ordered the priorities on the app side.
1) Get a unified app experience everywhere
2) Deliver the in-app analysis features.
1) Earlier this year, we had the new RaceCapture app for Windows / OSX / Linux in place. However, the old mobile app was still up on the play store for android, creating a disjointed experience. Fixing that was the highest priority. We got that accomplished, announced here: https://www.autosportlabs.com/racecaptu ... roduction/
2) With #1 complete we're focusing on in-app analysis. Recently, we've socialized much of our progress, mostly in example videos. This video (starting at 12:20) shows real analysis features in development: https://youtu.be/6a9wgjPYBag?t=744
The in-app analysis features will rock, and we're very excited about them.
What else did we focus on? Stability of the RaceCapture firmware. (nothin' but bug fixes here! https://raw.githubusercontent.com/autos ... /CHANGELOG )
If you're interested in helping and following along with the analysis development, please join in here for specific ways to help:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum ... ta-testers
Thanks again.
Thanks, and your feedback is heard - and thank you too for backing the Kickstarter! It really makes a difference.
The following should help clarity to how we ordered the priorities on the app side.
1) Get a unified app experience everywhere
2) Deliver the in-app analysis features.
1) Earlier this year, we had the new RaceCapture app for Windows / OSX / Linux in place. However, the old mobile app was still up on the play store for android, creating a disjointed experience. Fixing that was the highest priority. We got that accomplished, announced here: https://www.autosportlabs.com/racecaptu ... roduction/
2) With #1 complete we're focusing on in-app analysis. Recently, we've socialized much of our progress, mostly in example videos. This video (starting at 12:20) shows real analysis features in development: https://youtu.be/6a9wgjPYBag?t=744
The in-app analysis features will rock, and we're very excited about them.
What else did we focus on? Stability of the RaceCapture firmware. (nothin' but bug fixes here! https://raw.githubusercontent.com/autos ... /CHANGELOG )
If you're interested in helping and following along with the analysis development, please join in here for specific ways to help:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum ... ta-testers
Thanks again.
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JMcDonough
- Posts: 70
- Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2015 3:31 pm
- Location: Detroit, MI
I'd like to echo the sentiments of others here.
The limitation of needing start/finish markers in the data in order for the race-capture upload feature to work is, IMO, a major problem. I ran into that and I'm guessing that's the problem gizmoto had.
At minimum, an "export to stf" feature from the race capture app would allow data to be analyzed in detail offline by typical users. As it stands, here's my current procedure for comparing 2 autocross runs:
Copy .log files from microSD card to PC
Run perl script on file 1
Run perl script on file 2
Hand edit .csv file 1 to remove buggy lines and fix distance channel
Hand edit .csv file 2 to remove buggy lines and fix distance channel
Import file 1 into dlog99, save as .stf
Import file 2 into dlog99, save as .stf
Open file 1 in GEMS, crop to relevant portion
Open file 2 in GEMS, crop to relevant portion
Finally, Compare runs
I'm fairly computer savvy, but it still took a good bit of time to get the perl script working (install perl, download script, debug script problems related to trying to convert .log files that didn't have good gps data). I don't think it is reasonable to expect the average user of RCP to have to go through that process.
What I think it really boils down to is this: people bought RCPs with the expectation of sometime in the near future (based, in part, on "coming soon" statements) having access to software that would read raw .log files and allow viewing/analysis of all data recorded by the box in a reasonably useful format. Currently, this does NOT exist. This very basic capability hasn't been present for some time and the fact that new feature/services/products are being developed while the void exists is frustrating from an end user perspective.
All that said, it has still been a useful product and I'm really looking forward to the in-app analysis capability. Glad to see CAN logging interface is being improved with the added capability of bit level parsing of messages.
The limitation of needing start/finish markers in the data in order for the race-capture upload feature to work is, IMO, a major problem. I ran into that and I'm guessing that's the problem gizmoto had.
At minimum, an "export to stf" feature from the race capture app would allow data to be analyzed in detail offline by typical users. As it stands, here's my current procedure for comparing 2 autocross runs:
Copy .log files from microSD card to PC
Run perl script on file 1
Run perl script on file 2
Hand edit .csv file 1 to remove buggy lines and fix distance channel
Hand edit .csv file 2 to remove buggy lines and fix distance channel
Import file 1 into dlog99, save as .stf
Import file 2 into dlog99, save as .stf
Open file 1 in GEMS, crop to relevant portion
Open file 2 in GEMS, crop to relevant portion
Finally, Compare runs
I'm fairly computer savvy, but it still took a good bit of time to get the perl script working (install perl, download script, debug script problems related to trying to convert .log files that didn't have good gps data). I don't think it is reasonable to expect the average user of RCP to have to go through that process.
What I think it really boils down to is this: people bought RCPs with the expectation of sometime in the near future (based, in part, on "coming soon" statements) having access to software that would read raw .log files and allow viewing/analysis of all data recorded by the box in a reasonably useful format. Currently, this does NOT exist. This very basic capability hasn't been present for some time and the fact that new feature/services/products are being developed while the void exists is frustrating from an end user perspective.
All that said, it has still been a useful product and I'm really looking forward to the in-app analysis capability. Glad to see CAN logging interface is being improved with the added capability of bit level parsing of messages.
Josh
Great feedback, and thanks for noticing the CAN work - there are lot of opportunities for improvement that we're addressing. On top of the native CAN mapping (where you can load presets) we'll also be revamping the analog calibration page where you'll also be able to load preset sensor configurations.
But first, analysis.
Speaking of which, we may have a Christmas present that will be in the form of a beta version to test. Watch the demo video above to see what's coming!
But first, analysis.
Speaking of which, we may have a Christmas present that will be in the form of a beta version to test. Watch the demo video above to see what's coming!
A bit of a side question: Does the online analysis (or its future version that you're making now) have a way to compare data across two logging sessions?
I can't figure out how to compare my best time between two sessions on two different days. This is an important feature that exists in all other analysis packages.
I can't figure out how to compare my best time between two sessions on two different days. This is an important feature that exists in all other analysis packages.
vroom
Yep, you'll be able to compare laps from different sessions. First with imported data, then you'll be able to pull laps down from the cloud (yours or your friend's shared laps).
Here's an example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyBTv0v ... _MhnA3Pg-W
Here's an example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyBTv0v ... _MhnA3Pg-W
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pmacduffie
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2014 5:55 pm
- Location: Florida
Since I started the complaining I feel I should reply. I was out of town at the PRI show, so I was bogged down with that.
I have tried uploading files to the web app. I too was unable to see much from it. Some files show nothing at all. Some show data but the gps data must be fuzzy as it shows time stamps where large portions of the track were skipped.
Not all tracks I visit have good cell coverage and with 400 racers on thier phones network data seems to crawl. In this case offline analysis would shine.
I understand others seem to be filtering files manually, optimizing them in other software. Pardon me for sounding rude, but if I have to do that I will move to another system. I just dont have time for all that. Between my fulltime programming job, after work engineering interests, and seven needy cars. I simply cant add more. That is not a cry for help just purely business.
I still think you have the only real telemetry system on the block. Think that guys like Racepak dont have that to offer and in this moment what an advantage that is.
Philip
I have tried uploading files to the web app. I too was unable to see much from it. Some files show nothing at all. Some show data but the gps data must be fuzzy as it shows time stamps where large portions of the track were skipped.
Not all tracks I visit have good cell coverage and with 400 racers on thier phones network data seems to crawl. In this case offline analysis would shine.
I understand others seem to be filtering files manually, optimizing them in other software. Pardon me for sounding rude, but if I have to do that I will move to another system. I just dont have time for all that. Between my fulltime programming job, after work engineering interests, and seven needy cars. I simply cant add more. That is not a cry for help just purely business.
I still think you have the only real telemetry system on the block. Think that guys like Racepak dont have that to offer and in this moment what an advantage that is.
Philip
Last edited by pmacduffie on Sun Dec 27, 2015 4:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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pmacduffie
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2014 5:55 pm
- Location: Florida
I'm having trouble installing the beta. It launches three processes called "raceCapture_1.4.0.exe", each taking 108k of ram, and endlessly doing nothing else. End process on these doesn't do anything. Also, having a similar problem uninstalling the old version. Three "Uninstall.exe" processes, 108k of ram each, and nothing happens.
Having this problem on both my desktop and laptop, both are Windows 7 machines. Other programs can be installed / uninstalled without issue, it's only the RCP apps that are having trouble.
Also, add me to the list of disappointed people who backed the original Indegogo campaign, and 3 years later feel like you guys have moved on without ever finishing the original product. You keep saying "it's coming, it's coming", but it's been three years and it still isn't here.
Having this problem on both my desktop and laptop, both are Windows 7 machines. Other programs can be installed / uninstalled without issue, it's only the RCP apps that are having trouble.
Also, add me to the list of disappointed people who backed the original Indegogo campaign, and 3 years later feel like you guys have moved on without ever finishing the original product. You keep saying "it's coming, it's coming", but it's been three years and it still isn't here.