What if we create a seperate program to log the stock distributor timing of a car to create a basic map
we can use 3 inputs
points pickup
tdc pickup (trigger wheel)
manifold presure
Log this data while driving work out a nice stock map
If i got a megajolt conected but stil running (coils disconected) on stock dizzy with current software we can already log engen acceleration
Order my parts yesterday now for the wait .
Conrad
Logging your old distribitor timming
Moderators: JeffC, rdoherty, stieg, brentp
An idea I had was to use RPM
An idea I had was to use RPM and throttle off megajolt, position digital camera with a strobe light inside engine, and take pictures. Software then can assemble a 3D map based on those pictures. This is a pretty easy solution and can work very well.
A small problem would be getting a long enough USB cable, as they are limited in length by specifications.
Now the reality is probably it will be used by about 10 people total. Installing digital ignition is done in order to get rid of finiky timing of distributor, so whats the point.
A small problem would be getting a long enough USB cable, as they are limited in length by specifications.
Now the reality is probably it will be used by about 10 people total. Installing digital ignition is done in order to get rid of finiky timing of distributor, so whats the point.
dizzy logging continued
MPX4250AP can i use standard vacuum advance pickup on carburator (weber36/32) or must i get thicker vacuum source ?
Someone got starter map for escort 1600 sport kent ? +60 thou standard cam i think
And now to the fun stuf.
we can read crank position with crank sensor to detect TDC , use an optoisolator or mayby an sparklead transformer to get spark timming
read data in at paralel port with some clever electronics
use megajolt to get manifold presure + acceleration
run motor for while with vacuum advance plugged (static advance)
run motor for while with cacuum conected (vacuun + static combined )
log data into a csv file
do some magic now we have nice starting point to setup
can even compare with known advance values and see how worn dizzy realy is
wel my dizzy is 27 years old and never "serviced" exept points replaced lots of play in it
Someone got starter map for escort 1600 sport kent ? +60 thou standard cam i think
And now to the fun stuf.
we can read crank position with crank sensor to detect TDC , use an optoisolator or mayby an sparklead transformer to get spark timming
read data in at paralel port with some clever electronics
use megajolt to get manifold presure + acceleration
run motor for while with vacuum advance plugged (static advance)
run motor for while with cacuum conected (vacuun + static combined )
log data into a csv file
do some magic now we have nice starting point to setup
can even compare with known advance values and see how worn dizzy realy is
wel my dizzy is 27 years old and never "serviced" exept points replaced lots of play in it
I congratulate you on your
I congratulate you on your perseverance...but I don't think this is really worth doing 
we can read crank position with crank sensor to detect TDC
use an optoisolator or mayby an sparklead transformer to get spark timming
...maybe
...if your electronic skills up to being able to design a zero-crossing detector to detect that TDC has just occurred
...if your electronic skills up to being able to design an opto-isolator/transformer signal into a logic level indication that the spark has just occurred
read data in at paralel port with some clever electronics
...yes, cleverness will be required. Probably a microcontroller application (hardware and software design required) needed here to get the timing value into a computer. Could be either just a raw time difference or as actual advance degrees (but that depends on rpm which this device would have to be able to derive from the times between TDC as well). Let's call this device the Big Green Hairy Thing (BGHT). The BGHT would almost certainly not work with the PCs parallel port - maybe via RS-232 to the serial port. BGHT, in its own right, is much, much more complex than a megajolt.
use megajolt to get manifold presure + acceleration
...yes to manifold pressure. Don't know what you mean by acceleration, I guess you mean RPM? Alternatively BGHT could be calculating rpm, as described above
run motor for while with vacuum advance plugged (static advance)
...OK
run motor for while with cacuum conected (vacuun + static combined )
...OK
log data into a csv file
...bit tricky here. You have two things trying to communicate (presumably to a PC) at the same time - the BGHT that's measuring advance (and maybe rpm) and the megajolt that's measuring manifold pressure (and maybe RPM). That's a very big challenge - a) to get two devices to talk to the same PC at about the same time b) to work out how to synchronise their outputs to give a true set of readings at any instant
do some magic now we have nice starting point to setup
...yep, and a large helping of fairy dust
You can use Alex's ideas (timing light and megajolt) to easily get *some* points in the 3D map, just by holding the engine at different rpm in the garage. But it's very tricky to get to points in the map like high rpm, low pressure (high road speed, zero throttle - like coasting down a hill at high speed) in the garage! Hence Alex's remote photography of a timing light and the crank pulley - pretty complex!
Anyway, I think it's only of academic interest in knowing what 3D map you get from a worn out dizzy - you don't need to know what the dizzy is giving you to start a megajolt map. Any reasonable engine tuner (even you, if you read up enough about it) can start with a safe map and then tune the megajolt to give the ideal map
Just my $0.02, of course....
we can read crank position with crank sensor to detect TDC
use an optoisolator or mayby an sparklead transformer to get spark timming
...maybe
...if your electronic skills up to being able to design a zero-crossing detector to detect that TDC has just occurred
...if your electronic skills up to being able to design an opto-isolator/transformer signal into a logic level indication that the spark has just occurred
read data in at paralel port with some clever electronics
...yes, cleverness will be required. Probably a microcontroller application (hardware and software design required) needed here to get the timing value into a computer. Could be either just a raw time difference or as actual advance degrees (but that depends on rpm which this device would have to be able to derive from the times between TDC as well). Let's call this device the Big Green Hairy Thing (BGHT). The BGHT would almost certainly not work with the PCs parallel port - maybe via RS-232 to the serial port. BGHT, in its own right, is much, much more complex than a megajolt.
use megajolt to get manifold presure + acceleration
...yes to manifold pressure. Don't know what you mean by acceleration, I guess you mean RPM? Alternatively BGHT could be calculating rpm, as described above
run motor for while with vacuum advance plugged (static advance)
...OK
run motor for while with cacuum conected (vacuun + static combined )
...OK
log data into a csv file
...bit tricky here. You have two things trying to communicate (presumably to a PC) at the same time - the BGHT that's measuring advance (and maybe rpm) and the megajolt that's measuring manifold pressure (and maybe RPM). That's a very big challenge - a) to get two devices to talk to the same PC at about the same time b) to work out how to synchronise their outputs to give a true set of readings at any instant
do some magic now we have nice starting point to setup
...yep, and a large helping of fairy dust
You can use Alex's ideas (timing light and megajolt) to easily get *some* points in the 3D map, just by holding the engine at different rpm in the garage. But it's very tricky to get to points in the map like high rpm, low pressure (high road speed, zero throttle - like coasting down a hill at high speed) in the garage! Hence Alex's remote photography of a timing light and the crank pulley - pretty complex!
Anyway, I think it's only of academic interest in knowing what 3D map you get from a worn out dizzy - you don't need to know what the dizzy is giving you to start a megajolt map. Any reasonable engine tuner (even you, if you read up enough about it) can start with a safe map and then tune the megajolt to give the ideal map
Just my $0.02, of course....
BUT, if you had previously
BUT, if you had previously digital ignition on your vehicle, such as ford EEC-V, then you can dig the stock ignition map with little trouble. I paid $10 for mine.
BUT, Conrad states he has a
BUT, Conrad states he has a 27 year old dizzy on his Ford Kent engine, making it 1979 vintage - so it's highly unlikely that there is a stock map from a previous digital ignition on that vehicle 
Conrad - are you from the UK?
Conrad - are you from the UK?
Sunny South Africa
Sunny South Africa
Got a few Questions aswel
My car is a 1979 mk2 escort rear wheel drive , it drives like a dream after i reconditioned the motor LOL
can i plug out the vacuum advance on the dizzy and re-route it to the megajolt ? Map sensor or must i get an better source of manifold presure ?
Found a nice site with static advance curve's
http://www.mcs.vuw.ac.nz/~kris/escort/ignition.shtml (at bottom of page) emailed him to get the vacuum advance curves had not yet came back to me.
this and the basic map wil be my starting point.
My edis parts is on it way wil have it in this week
and wil receave my pcb,procesor amd map sensor in next week
a friend is cutting an trigger wheel for me on an cnc machine
Got a few Questions aswel
My car is a 1979 mk2 escort rear wheel drive , it drives like a dream after i reconditioned the motor LOL
can i plug out the vacuum advance on the dizzy and re-route it to the megajolt ? Map sensor or must i get an better source of manifold presure ?
Found a nice site with static advance curve's
http://www.mcs.vuw.ac.nz/~kris/escort/ignition.shtml (at bottom of page) emailed him to get the vacuum advance curves had not yet came back to me.
this and the basic map wil be my starting point.
My edis parts is on it way wil have it in this week
and wil receave my pcb,procesor amd map sensor in next week
a friend is cutting an trigger wheel for me on an cnc machine
If you live in Johanesburg
If you live in Johanesburg or on the west coast, e-mail me: 4600cc@superford.org
I am in Port Ezizabeth
4600cc i am in Port Elizabeth the friendly city
with 9 kilos to the litre it wil cost me a fortune to take a drive pt johannesburg but glad we have some felow South African's here
How about vacuum pickup can i use the output on the carb
or better idea use break booster's feed just split it with a T piece
Thanks Conrad
with 9 kilos to the litre it wil cost me a fortune to take a drive pt johannesburg but glad we have some felow South African's here
How about vacuum pickup can i use the output on the carb
or better idea use break booster's feed just split it with a T piece
Thanks Conrad
The MJLJ will always need to
The MJLJ will always need to see manifold pressure, regardless of the throttle position. Know that some vacuum takeoff ports vary based on the throttle plate, i.e. idle or off-idle. you will want to ensure this before using the distributor's vacuum take-off port.
Regards,
Regards,
logging old distributor
Another approach is to use an ignition timing light with an 'advance' setting. Using the existing timing marks, set engine to relevant revs (1000, 2000, 3000 etc..a digital tachy would be useful) then adjust the advance control on the timing light until the timing mark is at 0 degrees. This will tell the advance at that revs. This can be done with and without the vacuum connected to see the effect of the vacuum advance. This may seem rather crude but can be done with existing tuning equipment and without fancy electronics.
Of course, how easy it is in reality may be a different matter. I hope to have a go over the Christmas break.
I have made my Megajolt on proto board. Fortunately, I occassionally program hc908kx's professionally so have the relevant programmers.
Of course, how easy it is in reality may be a different matter. I hope to have a go over the Christmas break.
I have made my Megajolt on proto board. Fortunately, I occassionally program hc908kx's professionally so have the relevant programmers.
Done some analysis
Sorry to resurrect this tread
Got my megajolt in since 2006/12/24
With the car running on the dizzy i connected a timing light got a advance value with max vacuum (noted RPM) then disconnected vacuum set car to prev rpm value read an advance value again the difference between these 2 is the max advance the vacuum mechanism can give
Opened my dizzy noted the mechanical advance stop is 12 degrees so 24 on crankshaft
This engine static advance must be 10 degrees
On the last line @102 KPA i started with 10 @ 900 Rpm and stopped with a max of 34 @ 5600 Rpm
Top line @ 30 Kpa same as 102 Kpa to prevent high advance when foot of petrol @ high speed & rpm else i get an advance of 44 @ 5000 Rpm (is this needed Q1 below )
next line @ 38 Kpa add max vacuum advance i gathered above and add it to bottom line to get new advance value so 900 rpm will be 24 and 5600 rpm will be 48 (bit high but don’t think it will ever get there)
next lines just gradually decrease vacuum advance and so on
Am i thinking correctly?
Car is performing well .
Got a few Q's
Q1 Suppose i drive @ 5000 rpm take foot of accelerator, manifold in very high vacuum state is it safe to use a high advance like max mechanical + max vacuum in my case advance could be as high as 41-44 degrees
I think this is main reason why dizzy uses port vacuum coz it got no vacuum advance with closed throttle position
Q2 Like to have a global advance / retard button if pressed increase/decrease 10*10 grid values by 1 like swinging dizzy
Thanks Conrad
Got my megajolt in since 2006/12/24
With the car running on the dizzy i connected a timing light got a advance value with max vacuum (noted RPM) then disconnected vacuum set car to prev rpm value read an advance value again the difference between these 2 is the max advance the vacuum mechanism can give
Opened my dizzy noted the mechanical advance stop is 12 degrees so 24 on crankshaft
This engine static advance must be 10 degrees
On the last line @102 KPA i started with 10 @ 900 Rpm and stopped with a max of 34 @ 5600 Rpm
Top line @ 30 Kpa same as 102 Kpa to prevent high advance when foot of petrol @ high speed & rpm else i get an advance of 44 @ 5000 Rpm (is this needed Q1 below )
next line @ 38 Kpa add max vacuum advance i gathered above and add it to bottom line to get new advance value so 900 rpm will be 24 and 5600 rpm will be 48 (bit high but don’t think it will ever get there)
next lines just gradually decrease vacuum advance and so on
Am i thinking correctly?
Car is performing well .
Got a few Q's
Q1 Suppose i drive @ 5000 rpm take foot of accelerator, manifold in very high vacuum state is it safe to use a high advance like max mechanical + max vacuum in my case advance could be as high as 41-44 degrees
I think this is main reason why dizzy uses port vacuum coz it got no vacuum advance with closed throttle position
Q2 Like to have a global advance / retard button if pressed increase/decrease 10*10 grid values by 1 like swinging dizzy
Thanks Conrad