Car wont start.

mwman · Post by **mwman** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 9:59 am

I was under the impression that the EDIS module at 1800 RPM and below ran multiple spark output. I read it somewhere on the net, a frequency of 250 KHz was mentioned I’m sure. Is this correct?
You are quiet correct the in a conventional points system the cap does stop the points burning out!

MartinM · Post by **MartinM** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:18 am

mwman wrote:I was under the impression that the EDIS module at 1800 RPM and below ran multiple spark output. I read it somewhere on the net...

Hmm...interesting...a quick Google turned up http://www.kewengineering.co.uk/upgrade ... erview.htm where it says

The EDIS module has the capability of performing recurring spark, more commonly referred to as Multiple Spark Discharge. The latter is usually associated with CD ignition boxes. This feature was introduced with the 1990 1.9L Escort/Tracer engine. The ECU enables the MSD below 1800RPM on these engines. To signal to the EDIS module that MSD is desired, the SAW is lengthened by 2048us on 4/6/8 cylinder units, and 1024us on 10 cylinder units. The EDIS module can achieve up to 3 sparks per cylinder event using this feature.

I can't anything more formal anywhere else though (there's also a post at http://www.theimpclub.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?p=4174 that suggests it also)...sometimes you can't believe everything you read on t'Interent

...and the MJLJ doesn't do the "extending SAW by 2048uS" at any rpm.

mwman · Post by **mwman** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:30 am

I found the link again! This gives a good insight into the units:
http://www.dainst.com/info/edis/edis.html
On the subject of the EDIS module, I am after some pins, VWP was shown in a link on this forum, but they no longer list them.
Anybody got a source in the UK?
Thanks
Simon

mwman · Post by **mwman** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:40 am

We will have to see if Brent has tried this, MSD is designed to improve combustion, as my car is 60's tech it might help!!
Simon

fregster · Post by **fregster** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:44 am

Would the MSD coil give a greater voltage to the spark for my 10.5 cranking V's?

mwman · Post by **mwman** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:53 am

I don’t think so, all it would do is give three ignition pulses to the coil in succession instead of a long spark.
It helps where incomplete combustion would have occurred in a conventional system.
CD (capacitive discharge) type systems boast this feature. The company M.S.D make systems like this, I think they are expensive!

mwman · Post by **mwman** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:55 am

MartinM, this may be of use to test the function.
http://www.heggs.co.uk/vrssim/
What do you think?
Simon

mwman · Post by **mwman** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:09 pm

Further searching has revealed this link.
http://www.answers.com/topic/ford-edis
The US patent links have in depth info.
Simon

MartinM · Post by **MartinM** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:40 pm

mwman wrote:MartinM, this may be of use to test the function.
http://www.heggs.co.uk/vrssim/
What do you think?
Simon

Ben's simulator is for the VR sensor only - you need a MJLJ simulator where you can extend the SAW pulse by 2048uS at low rpm and watch the coil connections on the EDIS module with a 'scope. I have all the technology to try something out, but not the time unfortunately

Post by **brentp** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:19 pm

As I understand it, the multiple spark discharge feature was intended to be used at low RPMs (below 1800) to improve combustion efficiency- likely a way to improve emissions. I don't believe enabling this feature will help Paul's starting problem.

The root of the problem is likely around insufficient current to the coil packs while cranking. If you're convinced you have a fresh, strong battery try to temporarily connect the +12v feed of the coil pack straight to the battery, and ensure the EDIS module's ground connection is good as that is also a current path for the primary coil's windings.

And as suggested before, as a troubleshooting step you can bring in a supplementary battery to feed the coil pack.

The EDIS module produces incredibly strong sparks- even with a modest 13v 6A power supply! Try these suggestions and report back what you find.

Regards,

fregster · Post by **fregster** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:28 pm

I have tried taking the power direct from the battery.

Any way SUCSESS!!!!

I was messing around with my points (WD40) and thought I would give the MJ a go, I plugged in the MJ but missed out the TPS.

Started the car and sucsess! It looks like the TPS was giving bad readings (Vibration?) when starting and the MJ was jumping all over the place, I have currently flashed the car with a simple 2D map to get it running, but it will not rev over 3000 ish.

The output 1 stops when I rev the car, I am assuming this is the VR sensor. I have got the sensor as close as I can (Aprox 4m) away, I will measure tomorrow when it is light. but once it revs there is a massive drop in power and it backfires a second or two latter (Exhaust).

When this happens the display shows the revs 'frezing' and output 1 stops reporting, then comes back to life when the revs drop again.

Any ideas, I must say thanks for all your help so far.

Paul

mwman · Post by **mwman** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 7:41 pm

I wonder if you have interference issues, I did post on how to make up your own screened leads / further improve what you have.
Just check under my posts.
It is good you have at least got it running!!
Simon

david jenkins · Post by **david jenkins** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:29 am

fregster wrote: The output 1 stops when I rev the car, I am assuming this is the VR sensor. I have got the sensor as close as I can (Aprox 4m) away, I will measure tomorrow when it is light. but once it revs there is a massive drop in power and it backfires a second or two latter (Exhaust).

4 metres away! I presume that you meant 4mm! You'll need to get it closer than that - somewhere around 1mm is best. You'll need to make sure that your VR sensor mount is nice and rigid to maintain this distance, and to prevent false readings due to vibration. When you set it to 1mm, turn the engine round once by hand just to make sure that nothing's going to catch before starting the engine properly.

regards,
David

fregster · Post by **fregster** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 8:46 am

Yeah sorry, 4mm might be less, need to check. The lead does run 'near' the alternator but not incontact with it. It is then at least 6" from the coil pack and HT leads maybe further.

What else should I route the cable to avoid?

I will try to have a look ASAP