2nd installation : No spark

nickj · Post by **nickj** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:28 pm

Hi,

started on my second installation yesterday, this time in a 1968 Jaguar S-type. Had the trigger wheel
ready made up, and the sensor bracket (helps to have a spare engine on the floor to make this stuff
up). Finished wiring it all up today, and while I was hoping that this time I'd nail it first time, no spark.
Nothing.

At this point I've disconnected the Megajolt, working on getting plain EDIS working. I've verified 12.6V
to EDIS-unit and to coilpack (power, and each trigger wire). While cranking there is still full power to
the units. I've tried both polarities to the sensor. Replaced the sensor with another one, reset adjustment
so it was totally centered on the trigger wheel, and minimal clearance. Tried a different EDIS unit. I
don't have a spare coil, so I haven't been able to substitute it.

All 12V is taken from the same switched source on the fuse panel, and all ground goes to the same
point on the body.

Can anyone offer any good ideas as to where I've screwed up?

Nick

Post by **brentp** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 11:45 pm

Hi Nick,

Are you getting a signal on the PIP line from the EDIS module? if you use your meter, you should be able to see a voltage reading while you crank the engine. Observing a signal on the PIP line means the EDIS module is processing the crank sensor signal. Of course, you should still reverse the sensor polarity since you may not be sure if you have that correct.

Do you have the 1st installation nearby? You could do some A:B comparisons- checking signals and wiring on the good installation.

Let us know what you discover.

nickj · Post by **nickj** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 8:18 am

Unfortunately my other install is still in storage for the winter. Will be at least a month until
it can come out again...

Measuring the PIP, I get 12.5V before cranking, 10.5V while cranking. This indicates that
there is full power voltage running up the PIP-wire, which can't be right...

I also measured the voltages at the coilpack connector. 0V with power on, 0.08V while
cranking.

Nick

MartinM · Post by **MartinM** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 8:37 am

Have a look at
http://www.autosportlabs.org/viewtopic.php?t=734

There might be something thet helps in there....

nickj · Post by **nickj** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:14 am

Thanks Martin. Measuring the voltage generated by the VR-sensor I get readings of
about 1.8-1.9V. The PIP voltage I get is 12.5 and 10.5, for no-cranking and cranking
respectively. I'm thinking the sensor voltage is OK, but why would the PIP voltage
be twice yours? I tried two different EDIS-6 units, exact same result on both.

I'm going to tear apart the wiring again now and see if that might help.

Nick

nickj · Post by **nickj** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:17 am

Solved... Even though the sensor cable measured ok, I made it again, and this
time it sparked straight off. Boy oh boy, do I feel stoopid now

So, 2nd install seems to be going ok. Just another 2 to go now.

Nick

MartinM · Post by **MartinM** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:02 pm

Stoopid is OK round here - as long as it works now, all is forgiven!

Patriq · Post by **Patriq** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 2:41 pm

nickj wrote:Solved... Even though the sensor cable measured ok, I made it again, and this
time it sparked straight off. Boy oh boy, do I feel stoopid now

So, 2nd install seems to be going ok. Just another 2 to go now.

Nick

Hi !

Sorting of having the same problem. Have everything installed. Tried both EDIS and MJLJ units by connecting the VR-sensor to a mp3-player and played a wave file that simulates a signal from the VE-sensor.
Both the EDIS and the MJLJ worked flawlessly.

Now when connecting the same VE-sensor cable to the VE-sensor in place. I get no spark.
Since I connected the MiniDisc player to the contact that goes directly on the VE-sensor - I'm pretty sure the cable is ok. I did this just by sticking wires directly into the connector.

Now, I might have switched polarity wrong. But the colour of the two cables on the sensor cable exactly matched the two colours of the cables coming from the EDIS-connector. So I matched these colours.
If nothing else - I'll open the cable. But I did a thorough job with a crimp all over both the lenghts of the sensor cable and the connector cable end in one piece which is a screening crimp connected to screened pin on the connector.

I'll try to confirm 2.3V AC on the sensor cable when cranking just to see if the sensor is ok to start with.

But....
I really did all of this typing because I wanted to know what you did different when you made the second VE-sensor cable ?
(I also see that you are in Norway as well - where are you located ?)

Patriq · Post by **Patriq** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 2:42 pm

Images of converted dizzy

britlude · Post by **britlude** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 5:27 pm

i bought my edis8 from the good 'ole U S of A via an ebay seller, along with a VR sensor and pigtails on both... setting it all up on the lathe before proper fitment, the blue/grey VR wires were connected to the corresponding edis colours and it didn't work!

reversing the blue/grey wires had it working! so the colour of the wires doesn't necessarily help or ensure correct orientation!!!!

on a side note, i did wonder if the actual physical orientation of the VR sensor has an effect? (ie. if mounted the other way around to the stock ford orientation!) not that i bothered checking, as it all worked how i wanted it to!

not sure if that makes sense, but i know what i mean! ah..... looking at the dizzy above, would the sensed polarity change, and hence the wire orientation, if the sensor is rotated in it's housing 180 degrees?

MartinM · Post by **MartinM** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 5:49 pm

Orientation makes no difference....

The key aspect of the VR sensor output is that there is no negative-to-positive transition as the missing tooth goes past (see http://www.bgsoflex.com/mjl/mjl_edis_summary.html).

The EDIS contains a positive to negative transition "detector" and it can recognise when there is one missing and hence when the missing tooth has just gone past

If you get the wires the wrong way round, then there are always negative to positive transitions fed into the "detector", even when the missing tooth goes past (the missing transition is a positive-to-negative one but that is not detected). So there is no indication that the missing tooth has gone past, so the EDIS can't do its job....and no sparks ensue....

Patriq · Post by **Patriq** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:04 pm

Ok,

I measured nothing from the VE-sensor. My voltage meter for AC is 200V or 500V only though. I don't know if it is sensitive enough.
I also measured the PIP pin coming to MJLJ. Not cranking it shows 12.7, cranking it shows 10.5.

There is 12.8V coming to both EDIS and MJLJ (same source cable).

For the record, I tried to measure AC from the VE-sensor whilst cranking with a remote controller.

I opened the cable and switched polarity around for the VE-sensor, still nothing.

Then, to confirm I again tried with the mp3-player playing a signal to the EDIS via the sensor cable. First nothing. Regardless of polarity. Turned up volume - still nothing.

Now I was worried that I had fried something in the EDIS. Checked earth, +12.5V etc. For the last time I cranked up the volume again on the mp3-player. Then - BINGO ! Spark.

So system is intact. Also cable from VE-sensor since I'm feeding the signal from the mp3-player via the cable.

So I've come up with these alternatives as to why I'm not getting spark:

1. The sensor is not in good order. I bought a new one when I bought a complete package from trigger-wheels.com with EDIS units, cable etc.
Is there a way to test the sensor - without the wheel ? Could it have been damaged ? Are they fragile ?

2. The trigger wheel (and its teeth) is to small to generate a proper signal, at least while cranking ? I don't belive this is the case since I've seen an other installation here that uses a much smaller wheel (Alexander's)

3. The signal is to week. Since it only worked with the mp3-player when I really cranked up the volume. Maybe the signal is to week. But... the sensor is stock Ford, and so is the cable, and the connector to EDIS. Can you measure signal strenght ? Maybe an amplifier would do the trick ?

4. The cable for some strange reason lowers the strenght of the signal from the sensor (not likely, but "possible")

Anyone care to comment ?

MartinM · Post by **MartinM** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:40 pm

1. Could it have been damaged ?
Unlikely, but possible

Are they fragile ?
No

Is there a way to test the sensor - without the wheel ?
With a 8mm bolt in an electric drill at about 400rpm....0.799volts AC just caused by the hex sides of
the bolt being closer/further from the end of the sensor as it rotates

Patriq · Post by **Patriq** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 7:27 am

That was neat !

I'll try that. Then I might at least be able to rule out the sensor. Then only the carriage of the signal remains.

EDIT: Yes, and what kind of meter did you use to measure such a small amount of AC ? Mine can only be set to maximum 200V or 500V. Is it sensitive enough at 200V ?

MartinM · Post by **MartinM** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:58 am

It's the yellow version of this....
http://www.rapidonline.com/searchresult ... kw=85-0719
...which is not exactly expensive...I actually got it for free for placing a medium-size order some months ago

As you can see, the full scale Vac ranges are 200mv, 2V, 20V, 200V and 700V....which have turned out very useful!